Covering / recording a Coroner song...questions

[are-eye-pea]

I'm not sure this is the right place for my questions, but I figured it's a good place to start. ;D It's the only place I've seen Marky answer questions too.

I am going to be putting out an album around Dec 08 / Jan 09 hopefully. It's around 75-80 mins of continuous music in the progressive metal vein, a big ass story line. Think Dream Theater type stuff, with less solos and wanking (not that there's anything wrong with that). Maybe more like Angra, but less euro-metal sounding...I don't know. Hopefully it sounds original ;D

Anyway, I want to include a cover of a band that's really influenced me over the years. I've got several ideas and have been going back and forth, but I keep coming back to Coroner. So the biggest question is; what's entailed in actually doing this.

I've read quite a bit of information on the legalities of recording and distributing other peoples music, at least here in the US. To my knowledge, the first part is determining who owns the publishing rites. I checked out BMI, ASCAP and SESAC, but didn't find anything for Coroner, or anything under (what I think are) the real band members names. I then found another source called Harry Fox / Songfile, which did find all the songs from R.I.P., showing a publisher of "EMI BLACKWOOD MUSIC INC".

Once I find out the publisher, I need to submit a "Notice of Intention to Obtain Compulsory License for Making and Distributing Sound Recordings". This results in the terms of the royalties involved. From what I've been able to determine, the royality for a single song, 5 minutes or less is 8-10 cents. This then gets multiplied by an estimate of how many copies will sell. I think the basic tier for this pricing is 2500 copies or less. I've also read there's just a standard rate some publishers charge. I believe the process ends with the publisher providing me with the exact wording for the "publisher/writer credit" I need to include in my liner notes, etc.

So, I guess I should actually post some questions at this point

1. Does the band know of anyone else ever doing this before? If so, is there a direction I could be pointed in?

2. Anyone here have any input for what they'd really want to hear covered?

and MOST importantly,

3. Is the band cool with me doing this? Regardless of the legal stuff, I'd like to get sign off from the artists if possible. Not to mention perhaps there's something they DON'T want me covering, for sentimental reasons.

The album I'm putting out will definitely not be a money making venture, but I want to make sure I do things the right way and have all my bases covered.

Thanks for reading and I look forward to peoples feedback (and hopefully somebody can point Marky/the band at this thread).

Garrett

[stillplaying]

Well now, thats something i like to know as well.
I'm not as far as you are, but finding out how music rights are working and whom to talk to for authorization for covering Coroner this came to mind:

www.newsound.ch/index_frame.html

It's the studio from Tomas Vetterli.
I wrote a E-mail to them ones asking about the alleged injury of Tommy and got a response from one of his colleagues. (He is just fine and very busy)

If you get an answer, please post it here.


Song to cover? --> Masked Jackal. (Any other will be just as fine)

GOOD LUCK!!! thumbs up !!

[parcaleste]

Baaah, enough with this "Masked Jackal" Do you have an idea of which track exactly you want to do cover? And the things in America are sounding disturbing (to say the least) in this cover stuff. Wasn't it enough to write it on the (back) cover of the album with the track or something like this?
Still, a word from Marky or some one else will be GREAT! A nice initiative though, wish you best of luck

[Witchfynde]

I'd see if your town has a local attorney referral service (or check your state bar), you just call them up and say you need a civil attorney in regards to copyright issues.

Dunno if they have these all over the country, but here in town we've got the Houston Attorney Referral for example, where the first half hour consultation is only $20, anything after that is their regular fee, which is very worth it. And they might be able to find one in a certain area of town too (i. e. closest to work or home, or whatever).

[Sirius13]

I don't know anything to answer the questions about royalties & stuff - but I'm gonna suggest you cover either Sudden Fall or Mistress of Deception.

Good Luck! - let us know when your song is done, coz we'll wanna check it out

[are-eye-pea]

Thanks for the replies already! I've gone ahead and emailed Tomas Vetterli thanks to stillplaying's recommendation. Hopefully he can give me some feedback as well. I made a bad attempt and translating the email to German as well...I don't know Swiss German. Hopefully I haven't insulted him ;D Though my wife's father is from Switzerland...he speaks a bunch of different dialects and they all sound cool

As for what I've been thinking with songs...

- Totentanz - One of my favorite songs, and I've already dabbled a bit with adding orchestration to it. Lyrics may be a bit difficult to come by though. I've also come up with some accompaniment for the Intro, though I know that was actually written by someone else (A.M. Siegrist based upon a Robert de Visée composition?).

- Fried Alive - The first Coroner song I ever heard, long ago in 87 (?) on a local radio station. Instantly became a fan.

- Masked Jackal - Obviously a great song, and probably the most identifiable for the band

- Just about any track from No More Color...there are so many choices

- The Favorite Game - One of my favorite songs, though I question the "need" to cover it, as the production is so good to begin with. My favorite Tommy solo though, hands down.

I'll let you know if I hear anything from Tommy!

[Sirius13]

Totentanz is a great choice! - one of my faves.

You're right about the lyrics being difficult to come by though - it was the lyrics that were written by Andy Siegrist, who also looked after the Death Cult Lodge.

I got myself some Coroner t-shirts from Andy/the DCL back in the '80s, and at the time I included a request specifically for the lyrics to Totentanz. He was kind enough to send additional Coroner merchandise... stickers, badges, photo etc...

...but sadly no Totentanz lyrics.

I say do it anyway and make 'em up! ;D

TOTENTANZ!!!

[rehabitat]

Sounds like an ambitious project. I don't know anything of use but I wish you all the best.

[stillplaying]

To bad we never heard from are-eye-pea again...

[thrasherdave]

These are my queries exactly. I for one don't want to make people pay for this if t'll get my ass sued, and I don't wnat to do it unless Marky is fine with me doign so.

[are-eye-pea]

Hello to all. Has it really been a year since I posted this? Wow. Like all things music (at least for me), everything ends up taking WAY longer than you anticipate. Especially when I'm the one doing everything. The project is half way recorded though, so that's a start ;D

So, I received an email from a gentleman named Edo Kuyt:

******************************************
"Hi there,

Last year you tried to find out the legal rights to cover Coroner-songs.
Unfortunatly we never heard from you again and I was wondering if you ever had any contact with Tommy Vetterli about this.
We are now buzy trying to make a Coroner tribute album.
I really would appriciate if you could answer on the "unofficial Coroner Web-site".


With kind regards,

Edo Kuyt. (Stillplaying)"
******************************************

To answer the question(s):

- No, I never heard from Tommy. I sent the (same) email two separate times, just to be sure. Neither got returned, but perhaps they got dumped as spam.

- I sent similar e-mails to some random addresses I found after doing some research (possible previous managers, record people, band members, friends, etc). Most got returned I believe. No answers though. And no, I don't have any of those addresses any more.

- I did some research into recording other artists music, in general. As it turns out, you can get the copyright licensing sorted out for most Coroner songs (at least according to my previous research). Long story short, if you are going to include it on something that anyone will buy (like your own album, with one "cover" tacked on) you can either:

- Pay yearly royalties at some pre-determined rate (usually in cents per song/compilation I recall)

- Pay one lump sum ahead of time (if you know you're not going Platinum any time soon)

Regardless of which way you go, you are guaranteed to be doing it in a legal manner, at least according to U.S. law. There are typically one time fees for the company handling the copyright stuff, but I recall them being small. I don't have any of the info in front of me at the moment, but it's all readily available on the web if you look.

ANYWAY...I'm still hoping/planning to do one Coroner song; Totentanz. I've worked out the acoustic intro onto piano, and I've mapped out much of the song and lyrics. I'm just going to need to find an interested guitar player when ready. I figured if I didn't hear anything from the band by the time I get around to completing it, I'd just do my best to make sure it doesn't suck, and either follow the legal stuff for the U.S., or just have it on my website to download for free. I recall reading if you're not making people pay for it, and the original artist is credited, you don't need to do anything legally. Obviously I'll have some Due Diligence when that time comes.

I'm going to post a quick message in the Coroner tribute thread pointing here, for reference.

I hope everyone is doing well!

G

[stillplaying]

Thanks for the quick replay G!

I'm bumping against the same closed doors, ... more locks then keys....

I also had contact with someone in the Zurich music-scene, but ... no luck... ...Yet,...not giving up,...GRIN!, until I loose control. ;D

[Witchfynde]

^Ugh, you're funny with the Coroner puns ;D (You're very absorbed with all this, aren't you?)

[stillplaying]

Jun 16, 2009 11:57:30 GMT -5 Witchfynde said:

^Ugh, you're funny with the Coroner puns ;D (You're very absorbed with all this, aren't you?)

I've got the moon in my viens... (Whatever the hell that means)

[Witchfynde]

Now look what you've done, you got yourself "totally confused" ;D (think I'll leave that as a last entertainment--uh, I mean I'll stop there)